Sehar Kamran, the former Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) senator, is an educationist and a philanthropist. She started her political career from Karachi where she took part in student union politics. She has since been awarded the Tamgha-i-Imtiaz and the Medal of Excellence in recognition of her services. She set up the Centre for Pakistan and Gulf Studies (CPGS), a research institute, in 2012. She recently spoke exclusively to The News on Sunday, sharing her views on education, extremism, foreign policy and more.

The News on Sunday (TNS): You have been running a think tank for many years. What kind of work does the group do?

Sehar Kamran (SK): The think tank culture has yet to flourish in Pakistan. There is hardly any understanding of independent research and it is not encouraged. We have mostly dummy think tanks. We want to control thought. In developed countries, the culture of independent think tanks is strong and the state depends on them to formulate national and international policies. Our think tank, the Centre for Pakistan and Gulf Studies, has done extensive work on counter extremism, radicalism and nuclear proliferation. We had some international support till 2018. The Centre has also worked with the National Counterterrorism Authority (NACTA). We have also worked on non-proliferation and have lobbied to generate awareness to counter misconceptions about Pakistan’s nuclear programme.

TNS: You have lived in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for many years. How do you see, what some call, the opening up of the Kingdom and the progress in some Middle Eastern countries towards establishing formal ties with Israel?

SK: Such changes do not occur in a day. I have witnessed the evolution and gradual modernising of the Kingdom over many years, mainly since the reign of King Abdullah. This included policies to shift economic reliance from oil to other sources. There has also been a lot of focus on education. There has been focus on the participation of women in ministries, the Shura council as well as businesses. These changes were taking place gradually but they were away from the media gaze.

When I went to Riyadh in 1992 after my marriage, it was a very conservative society. Then I saw a gradual change in the environment. Muslims link the KSA to their perception of religion, largely because of the sacred sites in Mecca and Madinah. They should realize that it is a big country that has caught up with the times. Festivals have always been held in the eastern province with certain social restrictions. Wearing jeans under the abaya is a common practice in urban areas. Lifting of the driving ban on women was under discussion for many years. Crown prince Muhammad Bin Salman (MBS) has publicised the aspirations of the youth. Earlier, music concerts were not organised the way they are now. Many conservative Saudis may not be so welcoming of the recent changes.

One day, the government tells us that the Tehreek-i-Labbaik Pakistan (TLP) is a foreign funded party; the next day, we want to mainstream them as a political faction. The problem is in the narrative and a confused policy.

The UAE survives on its economic independence. It always had a liberal environment. They recognised Israel to further their economic interests. We know that Turkey was the first Muslim-majority country to establish formal relations with Israel. Egypt, too, has enhanced ties. But these countries are rarely talked about. However, in a country like Pakistan, where foreign policy is politically compromised, talk of relations with Israel can cause unrest.

TNS: How do you see Pakistan’s policy to counter extremism and terrorism?

SK: A government’s policies should be a reflection of the aspirations of its people. However, we have double standards in policies. We tell our people that the United States is our enemy but at the government level, we are dependent on the US. We have to be honest and not be greedy for short-term political advantage. By becoming a part of the war against the Soviet Union, Pakistan suffered tremendously and fell behind economically. We also saw the rise of religious extremism and sectarianism. Sadly, we have not criminalised things like calls for beheading a blasphemer. Where is the NAP here? The state is weak because the government wants to secure political benefit by appeasing such elements. The state and the society are being compromised for short-term political benefits. We are turning a blind eye to the harm this does.

TNS: Do you think there is finally a realisation of this in Pakistan?

SK: Pakistan has suffered a lot due to its short-term policies. We still see a lack of will and clarity. In recent years, Pakistan has fought against terrorism, conducted operations against terrorism, curbed religious extremism and prepared a National Action Plan to counter terrorism. But then we have also seen the Faizabad dharna, the escape of Ehsanullah Ehsan, and most recently, the talks with the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP). One day, the government tells us that the Tehreek-i-Labbaik Pakistan (TLP) is a foreign funded party; the next day, we want to mainstream them as a political faction. The problem is in the narrative and a confused policy. We have short-term goals and are not looking at long-term interests of the state. We have to decide whether we want to create a Pakistan according to Jinnah’s August 11 speech or a radicalised society. There is no clarity.

TNS: What is the way forward?

SK: The solution lies in educating the society. Unfortunately, for our state, education these days means the Single National Curriculum (SNC). I think the SNC is a big mistake. We are trying to teach Arabic in English books. We are including religious material in textbooks for other subjects. With the new curriculum and books, the religious minorities will face many challenges.

TNS: You say the formulation of the Single National Curriculum is flawed. What impact do you see on the society?

SK: Education is not only about curriculum. We are teaching Islamiyat in home economics and English textbooks. What kind of message are we giving to non-Muslims living and studying here? It appears that the people who made this are either unaware of the situation or are doing it deliberately to garner a religious vote bank. This policy is not knowledge based. Through this policy you are compelling children to study a radicalised syllabus. Even in the KSA, to a point, it is not mandatory to study or read Islamiyat and/ or Quran. But here we are mandating teaching of Quran, even at the university level.

The state has a responsibility to educate every child. Such curriculum and books and forcing students to follow a certain religious mindset can make non-Muslim students and teachers feel threatened, perhaps even vulnerable to blasphemy charges for unintentional mishandling. This curriculum will hinder progressive thinking.

TNS: How do you see Pakistan’s performance on the foreign policy front? Some people say that the country has been isolated.

SK: Let me say very clearly and openly that Pakistan’s diplomacy has failed miserably. It seems that our Foreign Office is being held hostage. Our foreign policy appears to be faith-based rather than determined by economic interests. There is a friction in relations with many countries, including the KSA and the US. Also, we have a reactive rather than proactive diplomacy. Why do we have to announce that we are mediating between two countries? Why not do so quietly? Why does the government want the parliament to debate the Yemen war? Why do we have to keep complaining publicly about not receiving a call from President Biden? Diplomacy is a subtle art. It is about creating win-win situations. You do not say “absolutely not” unnecessarily. It is partly on account of poor diplomacy that Pakistan currently lacks even working relations with many countries.

The author is a staff reporter. He can be reached at vaqargillani@gmail.com. He tweets at @waqargillani