Riaz Khokhar, former Foreign Secretary of Pakistan, has served in India for ten years as a diplomat in the late 1980s till late 1990s, including being Pakistan’s high commissioner to India from 1992-1997. He has also served as Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States for two years (1997-1999) and  China for three years (1999-2002) before leading the top post of foreign ministry.

The News on Sunday: What does a BJP victory mean for India-Pakistan relations? There have been phases of tension ever since Mian Nawaz Sharif came into power last year, and the much-awaited Manmohan Singh visit did not happen. How do you analyse the perception that the relations have always improved under non-Congress governments?

Riaz Khokhar: First of all, I have two general comments. The election in India is a remarkable experience and the Election Commission of India must be complimented for an excellent job. There are no outcries of rigging at all. I would recommend that members of our Election Commission should be sent to India to learn how free and fair elections are held.

It is also remarkable that Indian democracy has vindicated itself. Here is a man from a very humble background who has made it to the prime ministership of India. This is probably not possible in Pakistan. We have only multi billionaires to become PM which is sad.

The difference between us and India is that they know what they want. And we provide a very confused picture. Manmohan Singh was invited by Pakistan 11 times but he did not think it was worthwhile to visit Pakistan. If you recall, Nawaz Sharif invited him to the oath-taking ceremony and what was the response of India? A low level official in the Indian ministry of external affairs turned down the invitation.

Now, this is just an illusion that our relations with non-Congress government might be better. They have always been marginally better during the Janata Dal times, during the time of Desai. During the BJP tenure, they were slightly better.

The number one issue between India and Pakistan is Kashmir, number two is Siachen glacier, number three is Sir Creek, number four is water. I do not consider trade or economic relations as problem or people-to-people contact or wider relationship between India and Pakistan. So, what is the price of normalisation?

Indians have been consistently clear of what they want. You will get normalisation and better relations with India provided you pay the price. And the price is very simple -- better relations between the two countries on India’s terms. That is all.

TNS: Pakistan is currently run by a conservative, pro-business government of Nawaz Sharif. How will this feature in India-Pakistan relations, with Modi banking on economic reforms to win elections?

RK: Nobody is against economic development. If you say we want better trade with India, he will say most welcome. But here also, have we done our homework? Even today, the opinion on trade is divided. There are people for and against it. There are people with deep-vested interests. So, what I am saying is if India wants trade we have to decide; the ball is in our court. India is not going to change its non-tariff barriers, etc, for Pakistan. This is a myth that we have 1.5 billion worth of market on our doorstep. A lot of this is what is being said to us by our Western friends because this is what they want. Please try and see how it works. But on the key issues there will be no movement. Movement will only be possible on their terms.

TNS: Should Pakistan change its strategy/diplomacy in dealing with India?

RK: Our leaders must understand what Modi stands for. They will have to decide their policy in that context. We have no room for mistake. It is desirable to have normal neighbourly relations. Indians are watching us very carefully. Our prime minister should appoint a foreign minister. He cannot hold the portfolio. Express your desire to have normal relations but do not lose self respect because appeasement is not a policy. We have been following this policy for 10 years, which means losing ground to India. Peace needs to be seen in the interest of both countries. Pakistan needs to have clarity on the price it would be ready to pay for making peace with India.

TNS: What does Modi’s victory mean for the US, China, and Pakistan, in the regional context?

RK: India will take even more assertive role in Afghanistan. Modi will take more assertive actions; he will give a free hand to RAW to do what is in their interest. I think we should be prepared for that.

Indian foreign policy establishment has very poor assessments and opinions of our leadership across the board. The region would become more complex. Modi has already given some kind of initial warnings in his election campaigns about Muslim Bangladeshis. He has also put us on a notice. He talked about Dawood Ibrahim, demanding him. The first requirement when Modi meets Nawaz after casual introductory remarks will be about the Bombay accused. Can Nawaz Sharif deliver?

They also know that Nawaz Sharif is a house divided. There is a general consensus in Pakistan that we want better relations with India. No dispute over that. This is like saying motherhood is good. So, when you get down to specifics what is it that Pakistan wants? General Musharraf compromised on Kashmir. PPP government compromised on Kashmir. And, at least, we do not know what discussions have taken place between Nawaz Sharif’s special representatives on back channels. What is it we are discussing with India? Also, please remember that General Raheel Sharif in his statement made it very clear that the issue of Jammu and Kashmir will be settled according to UN resolutions. He is actually rejecting General Musharraf’s four-point formula or any other that is being worked out. So, do the Indians not know it?

This invitation to Nawaz Sharif on the swearing-in ceremony is not a special invitation. May be, they have invited a lot of people. He is one of them. He has to weigh what are the advantages and disadvantages of it. India also knows that most leaders of Pakistan are desperate to come to India. Because they also know that we solicit invitation. The last Indian Prime Minister who visited Pakistan was Atal Bihari Vajpayee in the late 1990s. There have been no bilateral PM visits to Pakistan from India.

TNS: How does it bode for the Muslims? Is there a reason for them to feel unsafe? Or is the idea of secularism strong enough to protect religious minorities?

RK: Secularism has been, I think, very badly injured in this election. Now, it’s Hindutva. Look at the symbols during his election campaign. Hindutva symbols were overwhelming. After he got elected he went to ‘Ganga Aarti’ in Varanasi. These are very powerful messages. We do not know what his cabinet would be like. But it will be Modi style.

Muslims in India have no expectations from Pakistan. It would be wise not to get involved. They are 200 million and they can look after themselves. Yes, we have an obligation to the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

TNS: Can you make a comparison between the Modi built up by the election campaign and the real man?

RK: I don’t know him personally though. I have met him. He is a very established personality. He has no experience of being a prime minister, no experience of dealing with countries. I am not sure what kind of language he speaks. But people like him are very solid. They are not empty-headed. A very large Hindu community elected him. The bulk of his support comes from the Hindu community. Whether Muslims supported him or not is irrelevant. He is now the PM of India and that is what matters. We have no choice but to deal with him.

He is very determined, whatever he says he will do. So, our leaders should keep this in mind. He is not worried about his position or the army or about somebody bringing him down. He will rely on three things. He is a blue-blooded RSS, so he will not be in a position to ignore too much of guidance that would come from the RSS. He will also be guided by the Indian establishment, which is very happy that they have now a PM who will do things as they will try and guide him. Thirdly, of course, he would listen to some BJP leaders but the old guards, the likes of Vajpayee and Advani, would be respected but may not be effective in decision making. So, this is Modi government for you.

TNS: Is it too early to write a requiem for the Congress? It does not look like it will be able to strike back in the next election, going by the swing towards the right in many parts of the world, including Pakistan. Is there still some chance for the Aam Admi Party?

RK: I think this man (Modi) is in for a long innings. He has got total backing of the Indian business community. He will put together a very solid economic team and a solid foreign policy team. He would deliver.