The News on Sunday: How do you see the political journey of JI. There is a progressive slide in Jamaat-e-Islami’s votebank in successive elections?

Syed Munawar Hasan: You are right. In-fact Jamshaid Dasti (an MNA from Muzaffargarh) has told the assembly about the activities of these popular elected representatives. And Pakistan’s Supreme Court has told the people about Dasti’s fake degree. When people vote for the corrupt and fake degree-holders, the decline of Jamaat-e-Islami is but natural. Also, it took years exposing the manipulation in elections through the formation of IJI (Islami Jamhoori Ittehad). Today, both winning and losing parties are making rigging allegations. The revelation of rigging in election 2013 is rather quick. In fact, the whole system has become a joke.

Our defeat is not a rejection of religion. All the governments everywhere are elected on the basis of social welfare. But here people vote for corruption. And this is a question mark on the whole system and democracy. Even as far as manifestoes go, we have given a solution to all problems of Pakistan including the economy. Most importantly, JI gives welfare services to people across Pakistan, in floods and earthquakes, even if it’s not in government.

TNS: Some of your recent statements, calling Osama bin Laden and Hakimullah Mehsud as martyrs and questioning the sacrifices of Pakistani forces, have stirred controversy. How you can ignore sacrifices of our forces against terrorism?

SMH: Pakistan became a front line ally in this War on Terror by siding with the US. The question is if we are going to serve the US purposes, why do we need Pakistan Army. The US forces are good for our protection and carrying drone strikes. The issue is that Pakistani forces do not want to hear anything against the War on Terror. I have only raised a question that if US soldiers killed in Afghanistan are not martyrs for us, then what is the status of our dead soldiers who are supporting the US. This is a question to be addressed by the muftis and I am not a mufti. I have just raised this question. I often give such statements.

TNS: How do you see the Taliban phenomenon and the wave of terrorism unleashed by them? Do you seriously think there was any other option for Pakistan after 9/11 when the Americans threatened to send Pakistan to "stone age"?

SMH: Three resolutions were brought by the three All Parties Conferences (APCs) held with the support of the parliaments. Taliban have also supported those resolutions. All three resolutions suggested that Pakistan needs to revisit its foreign policy. It was decided that our policy should be pro-Pakistan not pro-America. As per the ongoing policy, we destroyed our neighbouring Afghanistan brick by brick to support America. Taliban phenomenon would end if it is changed. The US toppled Taliban regime in Kabul with the support of Pakistan, so there would be reaction. Similarly, there should not be intervention in Afghanistan’s affairs. We should make our policy with nationalism and rationalism and implement all those three resolutions.

As far as being sent to the stone age, it is clear now that Pervez Musharraf lied. It was not a communication between Musharraf and the US president. Only a low level official said it.

TNS: Do you really think the parliament is autonomous in making the country’s foreign policy. Isn’t it under the Pakistan Army’s control?

SMH: My opinion is about what the parliament has approved. I think parliament was qualified to approve that resolution. I personally say there should not be army intervention but can our sitting legislators say it on the floor? They are sailing in two boats at one time. And also when these APCs were called, the  army was also present. We are for open and clear politics. If sitting rulers are powerless they should say it.

TNS: JI is always labelled as a likeminded religious group of the Taliban because of its statements. What is your point of difference and similarity with the Taliban?

SMH: It is not the issue of like-mindedness. All political parties have decided that there should be talks with Taliban. So JI should not be singled out. This is what has been agreed by the government at the highest forum. There is no similarity. You talk even to plane hijackers. Afghanistan’s policy on Osama Bin Laden was very clear. They told the US to take their allegations in the International Court of Justice and prove them. But the US did not present any such charge sheet and Kabul did not handover OBL to the US.

There was no 9/11; it was all fabricated. In the US, there are dozens of books saying 9/11 did not happen. The entire US foreign policy is anti-Islam. In the last 15 to 20 years, count the US attacks on Muslim countries. Whenever there is a Palestine-Israel conflict, the US supports Israel. It did not apologise for Salala attack.

TNS: To what extent do you support the philosophy of Taliban?

SMH: There can be only peaceful efforts to enforce an Islamic system. You cannot make peace or enforce Shariah on gunpoint. Even Taliban’s own school of thought (Deoband) believes in changing minds through peace. Deobandi school of thought which is reflected in the Wafaqul Madaris should take the initiative in this whole issue and monitor the talks [with Taliban].

TNS: What can be the give and take from both sides in these peace talks?

SMH: The cat is slowly coming out of the bag. Now the Taliban have given lists and have asked to release their captured women and children, implying there are safe houses across Pakistan. The Supreme Court has also said that agencies are involved in missing persons.

The government figures say 20,000 people have been apprehended in the Karachi operation. When I asked Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar where are these prisoners kept, he admitted they are being kept in private houses. These issues will be exposed at the end. When the government will say the women and children are not in their custody, the Taliban are going to start giving a list of safe houses. These safe houses should end. Women and children should immediately be released.

But I still say, it the end Pakistan will win and peace will win.

TNS: How do you see the relations with India if the Kashmir issue remains unresolved?

SMH: For the last 65 years or so, we have not had normal relations with India without a resolution of Kashmir. If we want to spend another 70 years, it is up to us. India is target killing in Kashmir, 0.8 million army troops are deployed in a small valley, should we allow this to continue?

All political parties’ manifestoes in Pakistan show commitment to resolve the Kashmir issue but when they come in the government they forget it and say they have been given the mandate of friendship with India. The real issue is to give the right of self determination to the people of Kashmir. Musharraf de-tracked this issue by proposing autonomy but people on both sides of Kashmir came on the streets to protest.

TNS: How do you see the recent Saudi Arabian interest in Pakistan? Can we say it is linked to the current Middle East situation, especially in Bahrain and Syria?

SMH: Pakistani government has repeatedly denied any involvement in Syria through Saudi Arabia. Pakistan’s friendship with Saudi Arabia has become deeper in fact. Some people in Pakistan don’t like friendship with Saudi Arabia. That is why they create different stories. If Saudi Arabia gives USD 1.5b and Iran helps in the gas pipeline project, we should go for friendship with both countries.

There are lobbies which are against friendship with Saudi Arabia. There is no sectarian dimension because no country would bring its sect here in Pakistan. Every sect already exists. We don’t need to worry and we should improve our conditions. If Saudi interest does not affect Pakistan’s interest then why should there be a problem?