In an interview with The News on Sunday, Dr Adil Najam, global president of the World Wide Fund for Nature and dean emeritus and professor at Boston University, discusses the literacy issues in Pakistan, focusing on deep-rooted systemic flaws and societal apathy.

The News on Sunday: What do you believe to be the most critical failures in Pakistan’s approach to its literacy challenge?

Dr Adil Najam: The honest truth is that we don’t care about literacy. We do not care about the World Literacy Day. It’s a good way to fill up part of your newspaper; a good thing to talk about for people like myself, someone in the government, or a few people who might really care. But there is no indication that as a people we care about literacy. This is directly linked to the fact that we don’t care about education. When you care about literacy, you value literate people. We don’t.

Literacy has almost no influence on who we value, respect or reward. When you see that in a society, the numbers shouldn’t come as a surprise. Frankly, I don’t believe [all of] the numbers. Technically, we are told, Pakistan’s overall literacy rate is in the 60s [percent]. Among young people, it may be as high as 70 percent or even 80 percent. I do not believe that. We change the definitions of literacy to be better placed on some silly table. I don’t believe those tables. The worse you are in literacy, the more likely you are to lie about it.

TNS: How do these failures reflect broader issues in the education system?

AN: Literacy cannot be seen as separate from education. When I was much younger, the idea was that literacy was a temporary problem. There were people who, due to their age and no schools in the past, were not literate. The goal was to improve their literacy. Therefore, there was a lot of focus on adult literacy. For the younger generation, the assumption was that they would attend school because it was our responsibility to provide education. Thus, the literacy problem would eventually disappear.

So, when you see a country like Pakistan where the literacy problem has not disappeared but might even have gotten worse, you should be very worried. That is a strong indicator of what has gone wrong. It is not just with literacy or education but with society as a whole. Think about what you see around you—on television; in your home; in your society; and in your newspaper. Look at what we respect; what we reward; and what we care about. How many of those things are in any way related to literacy and to education? If you don’t see that, then know that we are lying when we are talking about literacy. I think that is the fundamental problem.

TNS: You doubt the accuracy of statistics relating to literacy. What do these numbers fail to capture about the actual literacy situation in Pakistan?

AN: Let’s assume the numbers are correct. Suppose literacy in Islamabad is above 90 percent. I do not know which Islamabad they are talking about, but let’s assume they are right. When you look at literacy in the rest of the country, in Torghar, for example, it is less than 20 percent. This gives you the political story that plays out in your newspaper. It also tells you the distance and divide within the country, which is not just an economic divide; it is also a literacy divide. So many layers of a divide keep us from taking this seriously because that divide works for some people. All of these factors come together when we think about literacy.

TNS: Why should literacy not be viewed in isolation from education?

AN: The assumption was that literacy would cease to be an issue because there would be universal education. When that is not the case, it’s a major indicator of what has gone wrong in society is much more than just statistics. The rotten structure of the society is keeping it illiterate. Separating literacy as a minor issue means we do not see the overall extent of the connections that caused this problem. It’s fundamentally about education.

TNS: The constitution mandates universal education for all children (aged 5 to 16). Why does this constitutional provision remain unenforced?

AN: Part of the literacy challenge and the broader education crisis is the 25 million children who are out of school. That is a tragedy. Pakistan has the second-largest number of children out of school after Nigeria. This means we are choosing to keep so many Pakistanis illiterate. That is a choice, not just of the government but of the society. These days everyone and their dog seem to be an expert on the constitution. The less we care about the constitution, the more we talk about it. The more someone talks about our constitution, it is clear the less they actually believe in it or care about it. So count me among those people.

One of the constitutional provisions, Article 25, says that every child of school-going age has to be in school. So you tell me this: why isn’t that so? We are constantly debating other parts of the constitution while ignoring this critical provision. If we are concerned about the constitution, why isn’t this being enforced? We constantly discuss constitutional provisions on television, in newspapers and courts, trying to twist and turn them to our advantage. Why is no one interested in implementing this particular provision? Why aren’t we going to the courts to ensure its enforcement? Why isn’t the court taking suo motu action on this provision as it does for other issues? By not implementing this provision, we are choosing to keep entire generations illiterate. We have tens of millions of children out of school. That is the choice we have made.

TNS: How do you view the role of policy in addressing the literacy and education challenges in Pakistan?

AN: Literacy is a policy area; education is a policy failure. Yes, it’s a failure of government policy and a failure of politicians. Every one of them. But I want to push back on the idea that policy alone can change this. While all of that is partly true, it is a policy failure because I do not think the people of this country are demanding education or good education.

It is naive to believe that some policy out there will fix everything. The problem is that no one has come through and defined it. If you were to point out what the policy is, suddenly everything will be okay; as if suddenly better politicians will make policies act by themselves; as if policy is some button you push and good outcomes come out on the other side.

On the other hand, our democracy is not such that if we get great politicians coming in, everything becomes better. I’m sorry, that is not how it works. Policy happens in a context. And that context is society. Societies make their politicians deliver what they want, even when the politicians are bad. What societies want is visible in their demands. When was the last time you saw a hartal (strike) for literacy? Compare the outrage over something like Twitter with the outrage over education. The difference between those two is my main point: the society has to have a demand and outrage about the quality of education. Its absence is the reason the policies are failing.

TNS: What does this lack of societal outrage over the state of education indicate about the country’s priorities?

AN: You might have caught me on a bad day or in a bad mood, but this issue is too important not to outrage about. What I’m outraged about is the lack of popular outrage. This is a serious indictment of Pakistan as a society, of the government and of every Pakistani.

Why do I say I don’t believe the literacy statistics? It’s because we keep toying with the definition of literacy to make the figures look better or worse. The real issue goes beyond these numbers to what basic literacy truly means. But education is even more important. The government can tell you how many schools there are but not how many students there are. Even if they can, they can’t tell you what kind of education those students are actually receiving. They can tell you how many students are in universities and how many get degrees, but what I really want to know is how many of those graduates can actually write a letter.

Literacy was once about being able to write a letter or read a newspaper. Now, I’m not even sure if people with higher education degrees can do that functionally. By “functionally,” I mean in ways that are meaningful to their lives, their livelihoods and the livelihood of the nation. The definitions and statistics don’t capture the practical aspects of literacy and education.

This is something we ought to be outraged about: Why aren’t we outraged? To me, the real challenge is not just a matter of policy but of society itself. Now, I’m not trying to undermine the importance of policy or the role of government. It is paramount. But I look at the society, and I see things that society cares about, that it pushes the government to do. And I see things that society seems to have no interest in pushing the government to do. Unfortunately, the society seems to have little interest in pushing for education and literacy.

The interviewer is a freelance contributor