The News on Sunday: How old were you when you decided to travel the world? What inspired you?

Shueyb Gandapur: I don’t know whether it was a conscious decision. It started when I was first sent abroad by the firm where I was training to become a chartered accountant. They sent me to Abu Dhabi, UAE. I was 25 at that time. But then, and for many years later, the idea of becoming a world traveller did not occur to me as a possibility.

I think the first time I realised that this was something I could pursue seriously was when I was 32. I counted the number of countries I had visited by then and [found out] that it was 32. I found that interesting and decided that I should continue doing that. By the time I was 36, I had visited 72 countries.

TNS: How do you select your travel destinations? Do you plan and organise your trips to make the most of each destination?

SG: Yeah, the challenges are there. You have to jump through the hoops. There are no shortcuts to it. Some people used to say that since I have been to many countries, it should be easy for me to get visas. But I think the opposite happened to me because immigration departments in some countries got a bit suspicious of my reason for visiting so many countries.

On this basis, I have been interrogated in some countries. They questioned my motivation to visit places that are not considered very touristy. To answer your question about what kept me going, to put it simply, I think my motivation to explore the world was bigger than the deterrence of potential rejections.

Also, I think the world is pretty big. If you get rejected from one side, you can always think of somewhere else to go. Then, you go back to try for that place after a few years. The effort continues, and I think one thing that I sometimes repeat when I am asked, and it does sound like a bit of a cliché to me now, but I think as a global citizen, it is more like asserting my right. I belong to the world and the world belongs to me as much as to you or to any person who lives on this planet.

So, to assert your right, once you have faced rejection, don’t take it to heart; try again until you get a yes.

TNS: Which countries have the more strenuous immigration processes?

SG: Some are the usual suspects [laughs], but some surprised me. Once, as I was travelling to Mexico, my flight had to transition through the US. It was a very long flight, starting from Islamabad to Doha, Qatar to Washington DC, and then to Mexico City. It was only when I reached Doha that they asked if I had a US visa. I said no. They told me I couldn't take the flight. I explained that my destination was Mexico City, not the US. They said that, for airport transit, I needed a visa. I told the airline staff that they should've informed me when they were boarding me in Islamabad.

They admitted their mistake but said that I couldn't go. They would have to reroute me. They then made a very convoluted connection for me from Doha to Sao Paulo to Buenos Aires and then to Mexico City. So it took me some days to reach my destination. Another funny thing was that the flight to Sao Paulo was after 24 hours. I arrived in Sao Paulo, and the same aircraft had to fly to Buenos Aires, so we stayed on the plane. After a couple of hours, an official came in and said that the flight was no longer going to Buenos Aires because of a volcano eruption in Chile and the sky was not clear enough for the plane to fly.

After spending a whole day in Brazil, they rerouted me through Colombia and Panama Eventually, I did reach Mexico City. By the time I reached there, the deadline for the purpose of my visit had already passed. It was a work trip.

The first time I applied for a US visa, it took a whole year between the application and when I received the visa. When I first arrived in the US at Orlando Airport, they took me aside for additional checks and asked me to bring my bag from the conveyor. Then they opened my bag and looked at, smelled and tested every single item I had there, including my clothes and toiletries, as if I was coming from a crime scene.

TNS: Can you recount some of the cultural misconceptions about Pakistan you have come across during your travels? How did you address those?

SG: One thing I've noticed while travelling is that when people ask where you're from, they generally seem interested in learning about your country, like what it's like and places to visit. However, when I mention where I'm from, the first question they ask is about security. How are things there? Are things okay? Are people still dying? Are there bomb blasts happening? Their primary concern is safety because the general perception is that it is a very unsafe place.

Whenever I’m asked about the situation of women in Pakistan, I tell them that there isn’t a single narrative for Pakistani women; it varies based on class, income and whether one is from an urban or rural area. While there’s no denying that women from my part of the world do not enjoy as much freedom as they do in the West, the perception of them being always confined to homes to cook food and raise kids isn’t universally representative. It’s not uncommon to find professionally educated women in urban workplaces and rural women contributing to the economy by working in the fields.

People often ask me about marriages. Some of them are baffled by the concept of an arranged marriage. They wonder how one can get married without knowing the person. They presume that people are forced into these marriages. I have to explain to them that arranged marriages and forced marriages are two different things.

TNS: Do you think the more touristy cities, like Paris or London, are safer to visit than more rural or off-the-beaten-path destinations?

SG: The thing is, as a traveller, you should do your research about the places you intend to visit. While some places are really safe, others are not. Some places may have a reputation for being unsafe, but your experience might prove otherwise because you go there and see for yourself that the place isn’t as bad as you had heard. An important thing to note is that in big cities, you have better access to help in case something bad happens. You can easily access the police and find someone who speaks a language you understand. But if you venture somewhere far-flung, like in mountains, deserts or villages, and an accident happens there, you might not have access to resources or facilities like hospitals or police or find people who understand your language. This is a key difference between rural and urban areas.

In rural areas, there's another aspect you experience, which is a sense of community or ownership. When you visit a village, perhaps everyone will treat you like their guest. People might even feel responsible for your safety, but cities are more impersonal, right? People there are more concerned with their own daily lives and may not be concerned about visitors. If something happens to you, people may pass you by without stopping to look. This is different in smaller places because if people see you in danger, they will stop and do something about it.

TNS: There has always been much talk about promoting tourism in Pakistan. What practical steps can be taken to make this country more tourism-friendly?

SG: I think the first thing that tourists look for is safety. Most tourists are from rich countries. They have more spending power. The first thing they do when they [are planning to] book a holiday is to check the travel advisories. [For some places] travel advisories always suggest going at your own risk or even not going at all. So, basically, security is paramount. If you improve things for your citizens, they will automatically improve for the tourists.

Safety is primarily a concern for the locals. They are the ones who live there day and night. The tourists just come and go. Another critical aspect for tourists is having some degree of personal freedom. For example, sometimes tourists wear local clothes in order to avoid unwanted attention when visiting certain parts of Pakistan. This is another factor that I think goes hand in hand with security.

Affordable accommodation and good road infrastructure are also important. Many adventurous travellers are happy to navigate these challenges as long as safety is assured because I know many people visit Kenya or Nepal. They don’t have good roads or infrastructure in these countries, but throngs of tourists go there because the first and foremost element, safety, is taken care of.

TNS: Your travel writing has a unique style. It often incorporates elements of fiction. Do you think your reading habits have influenced this style?

SG: I'm sure there must be some influence. My favourite writers, whose style I admire the most, are fiction authors. Whether consciously or subconsciously, their style seeps into how I write, whether it’s fiction or non-fiction. Nonfiction, too, can be creative, right? I’d be glad if some of that is showing in the way I write. I think it definitely has an impact because, as it is said, the more you read, the better you can write.

TNS: How does experiencing places you've read about in books feel?

SG: What I enjoy the most is not travel books because they are filled with practical information but stories from a place as they provide another perspective, not like history written by the victor, as they say. Some little thing or place might be mentioned in a novel set in the country I am planning to visit. When I go there, I look for it, and when I find it, it feels wonderful. For example, I read Najib Mahfouz’s Palace of Desire, in which he writes about this cafe where all the intelligentsia of Cairo met to talk about stories of the day and exchange views about what was going on in the country.

When I went to Egypt, I looked for that cafe. I came across many cafes and kept thinking, this must be it. It was only later that I found out that Mahfouz was not referring to a real café; in fact, he created that cafe from his imagination, but that too had come from original cafes, right? So, when you discover something that you have read about – and not in a guidebook but in a novel as a place where stories happen – it brings a different kind of joy. You can only get this joy if you associate stories with places and feel like you are walking in the footsteps of the characters in that story.

TNS: Has travelling to so many countries changed your perspective on life and the world?

SG: I think what has surprised me, or what has shaped my perspective, is the kindness of strangers in the world. The kindness of strangers is a beautiful thing. When we go to new places, we are wary of strangers, right? We're scared someone might take advantage of us as being a foreigner comes with a sort of vulnerability, a kind of helplessness because the locals know that you don't know the language, or you don't know your way around the place or the village. Instead, they are more than willing to offer help. I think that kind of kindness is perhaps inherent in all people. I experienced it myself because I grew up in a small place in Dera Ismail Khan.

I remember that the number of times I saw a foreigner in the streets of my hometown can be counted on the fingers of one hand [smiles]. I used to make it a point, if I saw someone in the bazaar, to reach out to them, talk to them and invite them over for tea. I think that [this sentiment] is present in most people but is often buried too deep.

The other thing is similarity. You start focusing on differences as you grow up, but when you go around and see people from other cultures, you are surprised by the similarities. We come from a culture that we broadly call Eastern, where we are proud of our family values. But in places like the US or Europe, it was surprising for me when, to give you an example, I met a young woman who did not take up her dream job in New York and decided to stay in the countryside of Ohio because her grandmother needed constant care. I found out that people can have such strong bonds everywhere – bonds for which they are willing to sacrifice material achievements. What we consider special about our culture is perhaps not so unique. These things are universal. Human bonds, connections, and relationships don’t exist just because we are from a particular region.

TNS: Can you share a story about a particularly heartwarming or surprising act of kindness you experienced?

SG: Before going to Algeria three years ago, as part of my pre-travel research, I followed a page about the country, where I came across a picture of a beautiful village in the mountains. I tried but couldn’t find its name or exact location. So, I messaged the person who had posted that picture and asked if he could tell me about it since I was planning to visit Algeria and wanted to see the place. He asked me to contact him after I arrived in Algeria. That’s what I did when I got there. He asked me to meet him in the nearest town and showed up with three of his friends. They all greeted me as if I were an old friend. They took me to that village in the mountains in their car. It was a stunningly picturesque village in the valley of Bordj Zemoura. They treated me like a special guest and invited me for lunch when the tour ended. This outpouring of warmth and hospitality from strangers started with a simple question.

TNS: Have you discovered anything about yourself through your travels?

SG: I think the younger me was very reluctant to reach out not only to strangers but also to people I knew. But that reluctance has gradually disappeared, I guess. This might have been helped by the anonymity you enjoy in a foreign place. It helps you say or do things the way you would if you were not concerned about how other people perceive you. It’s not strictly something that I discovered about myself but something I developed over time with the help of travel.

TNS: How often do you travel?

SG: The funny thing is that I have done all my travelling while working full-time in finance, which, as you know, doesn’t allow much time off. I travel within my allowance of annual holidays, which are no more than 25-30 days a year. I break it down into three or four chunks and sometimes combine them with national holidays. In between, I have to visit Pakistan as well, as my parents still reside here.

TNS: Are there any countries you would like to revisit? Why?

SG: Many places. I've seen many places that I loved; they've inspired me to continue travelling. But one of the places that really surprised me was Mexico City.

TNS: That was one of the first places you travelled to, right?

SG: Yes.

TNS: Do you think that is why it hits you a little differently?

SG: Yes, and there is a reason for that. In the language of economics, we call it the law of diminishing returns. The first time you go to a place, the return you get from it in the sense of wonderment and surprise is the highest. I remember the first time I went to London; I was so impressed. I was like, Look at the buildings, the statues, the gargoyles. I regarded every statue I saw on the corner of some street as a critical piece of history. Then, as I visited other European countries, I started realising the abundance of such things, and the attention I paid to them declined over time.

I would say Italy is an extremely magical place. In the east, I think so is Japan. Those are the places that I want to not just re-visit but also live in for some time. I wish I had another lifetime to know about the lived experience in those countries, like how it is growing up there, or making friends, just learning about life in those places – but you can’t do all of it in one lifetime, right?

TNS: Could you share a humorous or unexpected travel story that still brings a smile to your face?

SG: Recently, on a visit to Cape Town, South Africa, I had to check into a hotel. When I arrived there around noon, the hotel staff told me to wait a few hours because my room wasn’t ready. They mentioned a shopping centre nearby, so I decided to check it out and get lunch at a restaurant specialising in seafood. While eating, I noticed a couple, perhaps in their 50s, also dining. The woman turned back, looked at me a few times, and then said, “You don’t seem to be from around here?” I said I was not and that started a conversation.

She asked me where I was from. Her husband, sitting next to her, was associated with cricket. They found a common reference and started talking about cricket, my life, etc. Then she asked how long I was to stay [in Cape Town], and I said a week. She said, “I'm going to say something which may come across as a bit weird, but I have a daughter, and she doesn’t want to marry a South African and wants to marry someone from outside of this country. If you like the idea, why don’t we meet for dinner while you’re here?” I was like, “Yeah, sure.” I could see that the husband was uncomfortable with the conversation. Two days later, I met the entire family for dinner; they were so warm and welcoming.

That random connection was interesting. I am asked if I took this further. I did not. The experience belonged in a particular time and place. I enjoyed it while I was having it. The element of surprise comes only if you are open to all kinds of experiences. I was open to conversing with the couple; I was open to altering my plans; and I spent an evening with them rather than going sightseeing every evening in Cape Town. That spontaneity happens only if you are a bit flexible.

Another thing that I still think about to this day happened in a small country near South Africa called Lesotho. While visiting there, I planned to visit a museum one day. As I drove there and decided to pull up in what I thought was the museum’s parking lot, a guard told me that the parking lot was not for the museum and that I had to turn around. As I was reversing the car, he said, “Wait a minute, I want to ask you something.” Then he asked, “What is love?” I was taken aback by such a philosophical question from a parking attendant. After I shared my perspective on love, he told me about his heartbreak. What is sweet about it is that he saw in me someone who came from another culture and wanted to know a foreigner’s perspective on a basic human emotion, hoping I might give him an idea that he might not have thought of to win back the woman he loved. That episode enriched my own travel experience.

TNS: Do you think these are the kind of experiences you only have when you travel a lot?

SG: Or when you travel alone. When you travel with company, you are very engaged with the person(s) you are travelling with. So, onlookers or passersby don’t see you as a person free to engage with because you are already conversing with someone. You don’t get the rewards of travelling alone while travelling in company. The downside of travelling alone is that, because life is about shared experiences, when you come back, you can’t reminisce or talk about it with another person. However, what I gain from travelling alone is more than what I give up.

TNS: Have you formed a lasting friendship or connection during your travels?

SG: Sometimes, I have stayed with local hosts, for example, in Guatemala, Colombia, Georgia and Macedonia. I have lived in their houses and met their families. I have made friends and am still in touch with them. Often, the motivation to visit a place again is not to see the place once more but to meet the friends I have made. Obviously, when you travel, you take something back home with you. It’s not just memories but also the friendships and connections you have made.

Perhaps believing in the power of the unknown to delight you is what drives you to experience new places and not return to familiar ones.